How to be a Disgusting Pig 101. [UPDATED]

(cross posted at kickin it with cg and Clintonistas for Obama)

Politico is reporting that a new conservative group has produced a television ad attacking Barack Obama for his relationship with former Weather Underground bomber Bill Ayers.

"How much do your really know about Barack Obama? What does he really believe?" asks the ad, which then cites the failed attack on the Capitol on 9/11, and links it to the Weather Underground attack on the Capitol decades earlier.

The group says it will spend $2.8 million airing the ad in Ohio and Michigan -- which would be the largest single third-party expenditure this cycle.

"Why would Barack Obama be friends with someone who bombed the Capitol and is proud of it?" asks the narrator. "Do you know enough to elect Barack Obama?"

The group, the American Issues Project, is part of a group that isn't required to disclose its donors and is a product of a coalition of conservative groups, including Iowans for Tax Relief. Its president is Ed Martin, a Missouri conservative. Another official, Ed Failor, Jr., is a former McCain aide in Iowa who left after the campaign's shakeup last summer.

The use of 9/11 imagery links Ayers, and Obama, to the American conflict Islamic terror, which is the subject of many viral emails attacking Obama.  The group's spokesman, Christian Pinkston, called the suggestion that the group is making any link with Islam "unfair."

"The idea here was to talk about the fact that his friends hate America, and that's who he's aligning himself with," he said.

It's spokesman, Christian Pinkston, is a former aide to presidential candidate Jack Kemp, and went on to run the conservative group Empower America.  Pinkston says the ad will launch later this afternoon.

Update [2008-8-21 16:34:15 by canadian gal]: The Obama campaign responds to the ad, saying:
The fact that John McCain dispatched his paid consultant to launch this despicable ad from a so-called `independent' committee shows how desperate he is to change the subject from his shocking disconnect with the economic struggles of the American people. He knows that Barack Obama has denounced the detestable crimes that Bill Ayers committed forty years ago. Instead of invoking Paris, Britney and obscure sixties radicals, Senator McCain should take the day off at one of his seven homes to consider whether his support for outsourcing, tax breaks for companies who ship jobs overseas and continued spending of ten billion a month in Iraq is really putting `country first.' To us, it sounds like just more of the same.


Display:


feh - how low can they go? (2.00 / 8)


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 03:58:28 PM EST

Lower Than This, I'm Sure (2.00 / 3)

It isn't even September yet.


by Hatch on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:04:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lower Than This, I'm Sure (2.00 / 2)

This is stuff they are planning to run on air.

The really nightmare stuff will be run very late in the game, passed from hand to hand, emailed to people. Out of the light of day, not traceble back to the source.

This is how they went at the Clintons, Hell, it's how they went at McCain in SC in 2000.

Guess he has joined Dick Cheney on the dark-side.

This is how they keep their minions frightened and trapped.

While the life slowly dissolves away, they need an enemy to blame. So, the people who are actually robbing them blind provide them with one.

Welcome to George Bush and John McCain's America.


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....
by WashStateBlue on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:23:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lower Than This, I'm Sure (none / 0)

Just goes to show The American President was way ahead of its time.

We have serious problems to solve, and we need serious people to solve them. And whatever your particular problem is, I promise you Bob Rumson is not the least bit interested in solving it. He is interested in two things, and two things only: making you afraid of it, and telling you who's to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:48:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lower Than This, I'm Sure (none / 0)

Aaron Sorkin understand our politics better than anyone working in the field today. You can see it over and over again in his writing.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 08:24:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lower Than This, I'm Sure (none / 0)

And it will get worse in Oct.

david


by giusd on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 05:21:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Swiftboating (none / 0)

of the first magnitude.


That's it, baby; let's go win this election!
by Beltway Dem on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:20:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: feh - how low can they go? (2.00 / 1)

The part where they insinuate that Obama supports terrorism.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 06:35:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: feh - how low can they go? (none / 0)

Anyone with 1/2 a brain can tell that the ad wants you to believe that Barack Obama supported the 9/11 terrorists.

It tries to make the viewer believe this by making a specious connection between a radical terrorist group from almost 40 years ago, and 9/11, and then a simple guilt by association.

It's kind of like saying - how much do you really know about John McCain?
(1) John McCain has fought hard for the endorsement of Christian Conservative James Dobson.
(2) James Dobson says a father should takes his son into the shower and show him the size of his penis.
(3) Dobson says McCain's views are more in line with his own.


by bushsucks on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 08:13:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How to be a Disgusting Pig 101. (2.00 / 4)

I got so lost about ten seconds into this ad.

"What does Obama really believe?"
"Consider this:"
"United 93 never hit the Capitol on 9/11."

Um... It didn't. So if he believes that, he's right. Oh, wait, you're in black and white now... Huh? Wait, hold on, go back. How are we talking about 9/11 again?


by TCQuad on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:08:56 PM EST

Re: How to be a Disgusting Pig 101. (1.00 / 0)

A one minute ad? I doubt this will air very much.

This is kind of like calling Obama Hitler. It won't work.


by Dale Johnson 007 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:12:58 PM EST

Re: How to be a Disgusting Pig 101. (none / 0)

They're counting on it getting a lot of play on cable news. I hope the media doesn't take the bait this time.


"This victory alone is not the change we seek -- it is only the chance for us to make that change." -- Nov. 4, 2008
by BobzCat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 05:09:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How to be a Disgusting Pig 101. (2.00 / 2)

CNN is getting ready to air a story about this as we speak. You can always count on the MSM to jump on this stuff.


Rules for Life: Do not annoy others; Do not be too easily annoyed.
by Not the only Dem in KS on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 05:32:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How to be a Disgusting Pig 101. (2.00 / 2)

Oh, this will be fun.  You have to wonder if this ad will really run on TV, or if it's just one of those things where they hope the media will give it lots of free airplay.

If I were Obama, I'd respond by saying that I welcome the friendship of anyone who agrees we should shake up Washington.  Okay, maybe not.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:14:15 PM EST

Re: How to be a Disgusting Pig 101. (none / 0)

"If I were Obama, I'd respond by saying that I welcome the friendship of anyone who agrees we should shake up Washington."
WTF!1!ohs!!nos!!!
just kidding, that was hilarious,  I have been laughing all morning, your post gave me another good chuckle
by KLRinLA on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 05:01:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How to be a Disgusting Pig 101. (2.00 / 2)

It's good that they are throwing the McKitchen sink early.  His mini-surge in the polls has them over-reaching.  I guess they think they can finish him off now.  They are wasting a bullet we knew they would fire by giving Obama plenty of time to respond and deflect it.  They'll be all punched out by the first week in Oct. at this rate.  Expect them to put a Wright ad out in early Sept.  If they are smart they'll save it until the third week in Oct.  But I don't think they are showing the capacity for that kind of restraint.

Of course, for every Wright, Obama can throw a Hagee.   McCain needs Catholics.  Abortion won't erase his pander to that hate-monger.


The future is unwritten
by Strummerson on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:14:42 PM EST

Re: How to be a Disgusting Pig 101. (2.00 / 1)

This "all guns blazing, in any direction" just continues to reflect McCain's fractured campaign: what is his message?
what the hell are his goals and plans exactly?

Since Hillary conceded, essentially starting the GE battle, McCain's theme if any consists of "the lesser of two evils", never really advocating his own goals, just attacking Obama.  It's like he is  begrudgingly running for office: "let the goons bash the knees, I'm sleepy" (he works like 2-3 hours/per day and usually no weekends)

Also, pretty cool is how Obama Campaign recently pushed the "trigger-happy, irritable, sabre-rattling fool" meme...talk about good timing with McCain's campaign announcment of all guns a blazing!

point being, I think the Obama campaign has got a formidable plan while McCain's is a sewn together hatchet job...let's hope everyone else figures it out


by KLRinLA on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 05:19:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama campaign response: (2.00 / 2)

UPDATE: Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor responds:

The fact that John McCain dispatched his paid consultant to launch this despicable ad from a so-called `independent' committee shows how desperate he is to change the subject from his shocking disconnect with the economic struggles of the American people. He knows that Barack Obama has denounced the detestable crimes that Bill Ayers committed forty years ago.

Instead of invoking Paris, Britney and obscure sixties radicals, Senator McCain should take the day off at one of his seven homes to consider whether his support for outsourcing, tax breaks for companies who ship jobs overseas and continued spending of ten billion a month in Iraq is really putting `country first.' To us, it sounds like just more of the same.

Wow.  He'll feel that one in the morning.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:25:33 PM EST

Re: Obama campaign response: (2.00 / 1)

Beat me to it :)


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:29:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

thanks... (2.00 / 2)

ill add it.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:31:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama campaign response: (2.00 / 1)

Is it fair to say the the gloves have come off for Team Obama?

Hell, we're almost moving into brass knuckle territory here....


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:35:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama campaign response: (2.00 / 1)

That's great.  Maintain the narrative at all costs.


by rfahey22 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:37:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama campaign response: (2.00 / 1)

Pretty good!


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:43:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How to be a Disgusting Pig 101. (2.00 / 1)

Great response by Obama team. Keeping the focus on the McMansions and the corporate tax breaks.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:35:06 PM EST

Re: How to be a Disgusting Pig 101. (2.00 / 2)

We need to fight back, the Obama team needs to fight back..

That is why I want Wes or Hillary or Biden as VP.

I'm afraid Bayh or Kaine are just too polite, too politically correct.

IMHO, (or not so humble) John Kerry would be President if the day after the Swift Boat ads hit the air, he would have PERSONALLY called out those clowns.

Mano-y-mano, anytime anyplace anywhere.

I'm serious, back alley, just you and me dude.

America wants a lot of things as President, but a wimp ain't one of them.

The moment Obama may win this?  

IF they go at Michelle, he must make it personal, he must call them out.

He can't go Harvard on em, he needs to go Chicago city streets...


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....
by WashStateBlue on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:43:09 PM EST

Re: How to be a Disgusting Pig 101. [UPDATED] (2.00 / 2)

He's also reportedly doing a Rezko ad.

So McSmear is putting all the flat tires from the Democratic primary onto his wagon? Cool!


"I don't know too much about Sarah Palin, but perhaps that's the good news." -- GOP Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison
by Obama44 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:58:16 PM EST

Flashback to the primary (1.28 / 7)

During the primary there was a concerted attempt by the Clinton campaign to smear Obama with his relationship to Bill Ayers.  I was as furious with the Clinton campaign then, called it McCarthyism, as I am with the GOP for running this now, maybe more because it was an attack on him by people who should have known better, who DID know better but who used it anyway.

Aside from the fact this type of ad is despicable and needs to be fought, I think maybe there is a lesson to be learned here about the kind of ammunition we give our enemies when we adopt their strategies.  


by mady on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:59:11 PM EST

Typical ABC (2.00 / 5)

Never miss an opportunity to bash Hillary and re-ignite the primary wars with false allegations.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 05:11:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Typical ABC (none / 0)

No, I do not bash Hillary.  If you read my posts as the primary progressed, I was so upset by the use of Ayers by Democrats I wanted nothing to do with politics at that point, again.  I think this is a warning about a kind of hypocrisy both sides play with.  

I don't equivocate; if it is bad when they do it it is also bad when we do it.  

Perhaps before you troll rated me you might have looked up exactly what I wrote at that point.  My family was affected by McCarthyism and it literally made my skin crawl to see Democrats, progressive Democrats, use that tactic.  I have not told a falsehood.  If you want me to document this I can but would rather not go there to that extent.  As I said, this serves as a warning to us.  


by mady on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 05:22:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Typical ABC (none / 0)

Oh, and I don't recall ever troll rating you no matter what I thought of the truthfulness of what you have written.  


by mady on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 05:24:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's it (none / 0)

One last thing, I figured maybe it was time I could actually start posting again here.  I don't think I have a damn thing to say that anyone wants to hear so I need to stop for the moment at least, although I doubt if this is ever going to get better.  Rudeness seems to be a quality of anonymous blogging and I probably am too much of an antique not to be disturbed by it.  Nor am I willing to muzzle myself when I have something to say.  This makes me a very poor writer in this setting.  

So, thank you psychdrew for helping me come to my senses and realize that there are far better to be part of a political community than on line...actual real-life locally comes to mind where back-and-forth discourse is unrated, direct, and mostly polite.


by mady on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 05:40:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm glad I could be of service. n/t (2.00 / 2)


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 05:54:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Um, Drew (none / 0)

It's not a false accusation.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 08:00:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

oops, someone else already linked n/t (none / 0)


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 08:02:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Um, Koan (2.00 / 2)

If that is the standard we are going by, then the Obama campaign made a concerted effort to smear Hillary Clinton using Bill's post-presidential sex life.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 09:42:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

sure . . . (none / 0)

. . . but that's not what we were talking about.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 09:56:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I completely disagree. (1.66 / 3)

She was asked about Ayers at a debate and she answered the question.  Then one of her press people told the press they should cover it.

How is that a concerted effort to smear him?  There was a concerted effort to nail him with the bitter comment.  But Ayers?  That was the McBloggers and the No $0.25 crowd.

What's silly is that we are debating this now.  That is why I TR'd that comment.  We can go back and forth with accusations and counter accusations for hours and hours and we only end up resenting one another.

The primary wars are over.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 10:05:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"The primary wars are over." (2.00 / 2)

Agreed.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 10:07:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

really? (2.00 / 1)

i thought we were talking about the revolting rethugs and the ad they put out?


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 10:12:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Um, Drew (2.00 / 1)

Neither is the fact that Obama's link to Ayers was more than "just a guy who lives down the street."

He served as a co-chair with him on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.  He launched his campaign at Bill Ayers house for State Senate, while being chair of the Annenberg Challenge.  They also served (though not directly) on the Woods fund of Chicago, when he was a lawyer.  His boss at the time was in business with a notable mover and shaker, one Antonine Rezko, who was doing business regularly with the Woods fund.

Clinton pardoned two people I believe, who served their time for their crimes.  How much time has Ayers and Dohrn served?

Fair warning, when you try to start throwing bombs around here, my friend you can get some of the molitov cocktail back on you.  Fair warning.


He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin
by TxDem08 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 10:02:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Let's not go there. (2.00 / 1)

Koan is good people.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 10:06:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No bombs (2.00 / 1)

Drew said something I disagreed with, and I linked to my reasons.  But as he said, no point in re-debating it now.

Onward.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 10:11:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No bombs (2.00 / 1)

That's fine, I'm just sayin'.

Okay, a priest, a farmer and a imam walk into a bar.......


He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin
by TxDem08 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 10:35:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Flashback to the primary (2.00 / 1)

I do not recall the Clinton campaign's efforts to use Ayers.  Perhaps you could refresh our memory with some links.

Personally, I am not a big fan of pulling punches in the primary, for the simple reason that the other party will use the stuff no matter what and we might as well see what effect it has.  But I don't recall Ayers from the Clinton campaign, at all.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 05:31:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Flashback to the primary (none / 0)

I don't know if TPM is reputable and there are a lot more hits than this, but here is some of it:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/04/hillary_and_obama_spar_o verwea.php


by mady on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 05:43:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Flashback to the primary (2.00 / 2)

Oh, I remember that now.  That was an issue of the slimy debate moderators bringing it up, right, and then Hillary kind of running with it a bit?  Because I mean, I'd prefer she had just left it alone, but if that's all the Clinton campaign did with the issue I'm still a little unclear as to why you were so upset about it.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 05:47:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Flashback to the primary (2.00 / 2)

You don't need real evidence if you are bashing the Clintons, only righteous indignation and a mild case of Clinton Derangement Syndrome (CDS).


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 06:01:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary used it but only that once. (2.00 / 1)

The right would be using it anyway and Hillary actually helped Obama by making it old news.

I don't think Hillary was all that comfortable with the kitchen sink strategy her campaign developed.  She never seemed to be enthusiastic about the smears.  But that's just my take on it.

That's why I think Hillary and Obama respect each other more than we realize.  Neither one is particularly comfortable going negative.

BTW:  I don't think McCain is that comfortable with it personally either.  But they all do what they need to do.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 06:35:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary used it but only that once. (none / 0)

Howard Wolfson, Clinton's communications director, argued in April that if Obama can't answer questions on topics like the Ayers connection "appropriately and effectively and candidly" then "it does not speak well of the kind of candidate he would be in the fall against Sen. John McCain."

WSJ

If you noticed, I said the Clinton campaign, not Hillary Clinton.


by mady on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 06:38:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary used it but only that once. (2.00 / 3)

Okay, so the moderators asked Obama a question about Ayers at a debate.  Hillary spent about 5 seconds running with the issue.  Then the next day, Hillary's campaign cited the Ayers question as one reason why they felt Obama had a tough time at the debate.

And that's the "concerted effort" to make Ayers an issue that you referred to?  I just want to be clear about what had you so outraged you called it McCarthyism.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 06:44:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary used it but only that once. (none / 0)

And this, then I will stop because this is just stupid, trying to prove myself not a liar:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4 330128


by mady on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 06:44:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary used it but only that once. (2.00 / 1)

Did you read the article? It's all about the Obama campaign attacking Bill Clinton for pardoning Weather Underground member Susan L. Rosenberg. Is this IOKIYAO? Or are you a two wrongs make a right kind of person?


by souvarine on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 07:43:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary used it but only that once. (2.00 / 1)

Hillary brought up Ayers. Why do you insist on rewriting the past. Everybody on this blog knows her campaign did. We're all political junkies here. It was a hard fought primary and they both went hard at each other. I'm thankful she did and agree with the reason they provided for doing it. They effectively prevented all this from coming out now and made him a much stronger candidate because of it. I love Hillary Clinton but let's not pretend she's not a politician who wanted to win badly. If you're going to complain about not being able to criticize Obama on this blog (which you do anyways) then you should understand Hillary is not above criticism either. It makes you look like a hypocrite when you whine like this and pretend Wolfson and Penn didn't sling mud (as did Axelrod and Co.).


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 08:38:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary used it but only that once. (none / 0)

mady said, in this thread:

I was as furious with the Clinton campaign then, called it McCarthyism
And then linked to an article that features the Obama campaign accusing Bill Clinton of associating with Weather Underground terrorists.

Now, did she call the Obama campaign McCarthyist when they tried to make the same charge in response? Was she furious with Obama? Or is her rule "she hit me first, so anything goes?"

Yes, both campaigns fought hard and went after each-other hard. In my opinion, as I said in October, Clinton should have gone after Obama harder, and Obama is the more skilled knife-fighter. I'm not offended by people criticising her attacks, though I think it's a little soft-headed, but I do have a problem with Obama supporters feigning outrage when Obama used the same attack.


by souvarine on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 12:01:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary used it but only that once. (2.00 / 1)

You know I really hate when people use the analogy that Clinton used "the kitchen sink strategy", b/c clearly she didn't and didn't even go really negative by many standards.

Clearly, if she would have used "the kitchen sink" more of the Ayers stuff, the Wright stuff, the Rezko stuff, and much more would be out there in complete one-on-one bare knuckles brawling type ads.  Obama and his supporters, needs to realize that what Hillary put him through was a training fight, and if he thinks that's the worst it could get they're going to be in for one hell of a shock to their reality.

The GOP is only getting warmed up, hell they're not even really throwing in the bull-pen yet.  But they're getting energized and ready for a fight b/c the race is so close and neither are pulling away.  Once they get motivated, they're gonna come with the hard stuff.  This penny-anty crap is just the warm-up, it's gonna get hard-knock life-style and quick.


He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin
by TxDem08 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 10:07:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I disagree. (none / 0)

They've got nothing new.  They'll cycle through the crap that's already out there but we've already heard it so many times.

The Democratic party has a new policy this election.  If the right wing puts out an attack ad, they counter it within 24 hours.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 03:39:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary did bring it up in an interview, (none / 0)

and frankly, why shouldn't it be discussed? Senator Obama has admitted a friendship with Ayres, as well as sitting on a board with him. And also that Ayres threw him a fundraiser when he ran for the State Senate. Ayres and his wife are dangerous people, who risked human lives with their terrorist activities.

McCain's association with Keating is fair game...as is Bill Clinton's association with Marc Rich, and Obama's with Ayres and Rev. Wright. If you lay down with dogs, you get fleas.


by BJJ Fighter on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 07:19:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary did bring it up in an interview, (none / 0)

So you believe that Ayers and his wife are currently very dangerous people?

Or is it possible that they did some pretty awful things over 40 years ago and that they people they are today bear little to no resemblance to the people they were while Obama was a kid?


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 08:34:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I've done some research on this topic, (2.00 / 1)

and have never seen an expression of remorse from either Bill Ayres or his miserable wife...or that they asked forgiveness. As this ad fairly quotes, Ayres once stated that he wished they had done more.


by BJJ Fighter on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 08:42:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary did bring it up in an interview, (none / 0)

I think they are disgusting and despicable people who should have been stripped of their citizenship and deported.

They do resemble the people they were 40 years ago, just like Charles Manson continues to represent and be the person he was 40 years ago?

They killed people in the name of their group which sprang from the SDS movement, and were founding members of the Weatherman group, both Ayers and Dorhn.


He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin
by TxDem08 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 10:32:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I guess I didn't realize that Ayers and his wife (none / 0)

had been convicted of murder.  Enlighten me.  How much time did they spend in jail for the murder(s)? Why are they out now?


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 03:41:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I guess I didn't realize that Ayers and his wi (none / 0)

So, when someone calls O.J. Simpson a killer, you give them this same little lecture, right?  Because obviously everyone who kills a person in this country does time for murder, every last one of them.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:47:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I guess I didn't realize that Ayers and his wi (none / 0)

In my reading about the Weathermen I have never seen Ayers name listed in conjunction with a fatal attack. The man is not a murderer although he certainly crossed the line in the 60's.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 02:26:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How to be a Disgusting Pig 101. [UPDATED] (2.00 / 3)

This is why he couldn't take public financing.  And it's only going to get worse.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 05:08:37 PM EST

Re: How to be a Disgusting Pig 101. [UPDATED] (2.00 / 2)

Yep.  Public financing would have guaranteed a virtuous defeat.


by rfahey22 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 05:34:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How to be a Disgusting Pig 101. [UPDATED] (none / 0)

And I heard part of the FEC hearings about McCain's using the public funds as collateral for that loan he got last fall.
I wasn't able to hear the final conclusion, but it sounded like they were going to let him get away with it.
Here's an article I just found (read the interesting blurb about Vitter at the end):

Six months after the fact, the Federal Election Commission on Thursday finally recognized Republican presidential candidate John McCain 's withdrawal from the public finance system for the primaries. The FEC directed the Treasury Department not to make any payments to McCain to help cover the cost of his primary campaign.

The decision ignored complaints by the Democratic National Committee alleging McCain violated campaign laws by obtaining loans premised on his participation in the public funding program. Democrats also argued in their complaint that McCain never sought the panel's approval, as required by law, before he announced that he would not take government money to help finance his primary campaign.

SNIP

The commission showed little inclination to take a stand on the matter. Commissioner Ellen Weintraub, a Democrat, even acknowledged that had McCain been forced to stay in the public finance system during the primaries it "would probably not have been a good result" for the democratic process.

At its meeting, the commission also punted on another high-profile issue -- whether Sen. David Vitter can use his campaign funds to cover legal costs associated with his highly publicized entanglement in the trial of "D.C. Madam" Deborah Palfrey.

The Louisiana Republican has spent more than $200,000 on lawyers in connection with the trial and a related Senate Ethics Committee investigation conducted after his phone number turned up among Palfrey's records in 2007.

The commission split three-to-three on the request, with the Democrats on the panel backing a draft opinion by FEC officials that he be allowed to use some of the money to pay only for legal counsel in the ethics investigation and for so-called "press relation" expenses arising from the Palfrey trial. Those costs were estimated at $31,000.

The Republicans, however, backed a second opinion suggesting that all of the expenses Vitter incurred were related to his status as a public official. Commissioner Matthew Peterson said Vitter was drawn into the case because of his status as a congressman, making the expenses political rather than personal.

"I think pretty plainly the expenses at issue resulted from pretty unofficial activities," Weintraub retorted.


CQ Politics


"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 06:30:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How to be a Disgusting Pig 101? (none / 0)

Vote Republican, of course.


by bushsucks on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 07:46:21 PM EST

How to be a Disgusting Pig 101? (none / 0)

Vote Republican, of course.


by bushsucks on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 07:46:43 PM EST

Re: How to be a Disgusting Pig 101. [UPDATED] (none / 0)


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 08:14:55 PM EST

Re: How to be a Disgusting Pig 101. [UPDATED] (2.00 / 1)

We knew this was coming. But not this early in the GE and not before the Democratic Convention. It's going to get lost in all the positive press the Dems will get out of this. It softens the blow significantly (see Rev.Wright) and takes these cards off the table for his campaign. The Ayers bit did not help the Clinton campaign when they pushed it a bit ( they did, let's live in the real world here) and I don't see how it can help the McCain camp this early on.

You can tell Rove knows this could be a gamechanger and if this response by the Obama camp proves anything is that they will keep pushing the narrative. About damn time we went on offense!

Great day all around.


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 08:30:13 PM EST

Ugliness (none / 0)

I was looking at the thread I started yesterday, this morning.  The comments got progressively more ugly and I felt I needed to just make a few statements to either try to justify or explain myself and my purpose in posting the original post.

I am not a die-hard anti-Hillary person.  I have many problems with Bill, but they did not carry over to my feelings about her.  I respected her as First Lady, voted for her as Senator, and was supportive of her becoming Obama's VP.  I am also not someone who has ever hesitated to criticize the candidate I supported in the primary, Obama, to the point sometimes of really becoming disgusted with the entire process.  

The Ayers mess was debated on this site back and forth for several days when it happened back during the primary seaason.  One of the things I had always admired about Hillary Clinton was her history of support of controversial and somewhat radical figures in her career as an attorney.  When her campaign even touched on Ayers as a sore point it triggered real rage in me as I thought she was betraying her roots.  Apparently that has not abated.  I felt something very similar when Obama came out against the SC decision on the DP's use when they ruled against its use for child rape.  I am adamantly opposed to the DP and it almost caused me to rethink my voting for him at all.  It certanly curtailed my campaign giving; I switched to local more progressive candidates for a while.

So, when I criticized the Clinton campaign's use of Ayers in any form, it was not a generalized anti-Hillary comment, rather it was meant to show that as a warning on what to avoid in a primary.  I would have done exactly the same thing if it had been something Obama's campaign had pulled out of the right wing hat to fling at her.  There were many things that were said by Obama's campaign that I felt were out of line as well.

I needed to say that because I am not yet used to the feeling of the ceiling coming down on my head when I say something that offends a group of people who I don't think either bother to read it thoroughly, or look at some of my prior posts to see where I am coming from.

Peace.

Mady


by mady on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 01:42:43 PM EST


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